Discussion:
Peace and Security of Individual and Society - Outlook on Matters of Economy..
(too old to reply)
love4all_hatred4none
2007-06-22 01:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Peace be upon you and everyone--
--(1)--Islamic outlook on matters of economy that promote peace and
security declares the strict forbiddance of usury/interest. Those who
utilize it are likened to being at war with Allah.
--(2)--Usury/interest can result in horrendous consequences, rendering
well-off people bankrupt and destroying their family life in the
process.
--(3)-- Traveling long distance for religious gatherings/jalsa by
taking loans is a troubling self deception as even Hajj is enjoined
to only resourceful believers. Some people take loans on interest for
non-essential expenses, e.g. for ceremonies in weddings. In developing
countries lives are afflicted by debt. Blessed Promised Messiah has
asked his believers, based on Quraan, to stay away from Interest and
stressed to trust Allah for help.
--(4)-- It is a fallacy to borrow money and get embroiled in a vicious
circle for temporary happiness.
--(5)--The Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) said that some people
lend money to others for their own advantage and affix a certain
'benefit' for themselves; this is a form of usury/interest. The Qur'an
is very clear on those who mistakenly consider trade and usury/
interest as one. [Al-Baqrah (ch2 : v276)].
--(6)--In Islam, the preferred way for those who have disposable
income, to invest it in a business with skilled people to promote
prosperity for all , instead of accumulating the money.
--(7)--A fairly new concept is introduced as 'Islamic banking' which
lends interest free loans. These [participating] banks should extend
their business, they will gather blessing. The community of promised
messiah should explore ways into this.
--(8)-- Usury/interest is forbidden however once one takes heed, one
should make amends. However, as far as the mortgage system [in the
Western countries] goes in line with the enjoinment of the Promised
Messiah (on whom be peace) there are certain economic systems in which
generally speaking the Community allows borrowing money for the
purpose of a house on mortgage. If the mortgage outgoing is about the
same as rental would be, it does not matter. However, it should be
remembered that this principles applies to mortgage on a house which
is one's residence, one is not allowed to use this for business
purposes.
--(7)--In promoting a peaceful, secure society while Islam forbids
usury/interest, it also enjoins to give those who are in dire straits
some respite in terms of re-payment of loans (2:281). Certainly, there
is no question of any interest on the borrowed sum, rather the
emphasis is to be wary of the person's hardship.
--(8)-- Islam certainly does not permit taking advantage of a person's
vulnerable situation.
--(9)-- In terms of abiding by the commandments of Allah, blessed
promised son of the blessed promised messiah once remarked said that a
non-Muslim is like a disinherited offspring and can do whatever he
pleases, the father has no connection with him. However, a Muslim is
like a member of the family for the parent and will be reprimanded if
he takes a wrong step.
--(10)-- Lender and borrowers should take care of each other by
imagining them into others position. The Hadith that enjoins to prefer
that for one's brother which one prefers for oneself is a guiding
light in this matter.
--(11)-- Some people infer from verse (3:131) that usury/interest is
not forbidden rather it is only 'multiple additions' of usury/interest
that is forbidden. Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) explained that
this is a wrong inference and that it was on par with suggesting that
the admonishment of 'not to commit sin upon sin' or 'multiple sins'
meant one could commit the odd sin and that only 'multiple sins' were
forbidden.
--(12)-- Surah Al Baqarah (2:283) = "O ye who believe! When you borrow
from one another for a fixed period, then write it down. And let a
scribe write it in your presence faithfully; and no scribe should
refuse to write, because Allah has taught him, so let him write and
let him who incurs the liability dictate; and he should fear Allah his
Lord, and not diminish anything thereform. But if the person incurring
the liability be of low understanding or be weak or be unable himself
to dictate, then let someone who can watch his interest dictate with
justice. And call two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be
not available, then a man and two women, of such as you like as
witnesses, so that if either of two women should err in memory, then
one may remind the other. And the witness should not refuse when they
are called. And do not feel weary of writing it down, whether it be
small or large, along with its appointed time of payment. This is more
equitable in the sight of Allah and makes testimony surer and is more
likely to keep you away from doubts; therefore omit not to write
except that it be ready merchandise which you give or take from hand
to hand, in which case it shall be no sin for you that you write it
not. And have witnesses when you sell one to another; and let no harm
be done to the scribe or the witness. And if you do that, then
certainly it shall be disobedience on your part. And fear Allah. And
Allah grants you knowledge and Allah knows all things well."
Explaining, the holy successor of holy promised messiah said this is
a most significant commandment in terms of carrying out dealings in
society and avoiding altercations. This commandment about committing
matters to writing was given in an age when writing of texts was in
its early stages. Here all matters are discussed with reference to
Allah, which is how a Muslim's affairs should be conducted. This
commandment is to promote mutual relationships of love and affection.
As far as two female witnesses compared to one male is mentioned ,
one sees even in the West women are not inclined towards economic
matters in the work place as men are. And in some countries, women
simply do not get involved in financial dealings etc. Hence that is
reason for the mention of two women as opposed to one man as regards
matters of financial dealing.
--(13)-The verse Al Baqarah (2:189) most significantly enjoins not to
devour each other's wealth and warns against the evil of bribery etc.
this is the kind of amassing of wealth that the Holy Prophet (peace
and blessings of Allah be on him) equated to filling one's abdomen
with a ball of fire. It is such practices that create general trouble
and disharmony and people lose their domestic peace as well.
--(14)-The holy successor of holy promised Messiah said we should
endeavour that under no circumstances are we among those who are
deprived of peace and security, may Allah protect the true beleivers
and make them tread the paths of His pleasure.
Divine promised peace for mankind in this era at www.mta.tv www.alislam.org
LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE.
Detailed answers to Important Questions:
1.The Physical, Moral and Spiritual States of Mankind,
2.The Object of Human Life and The Means to Attain it,
3.State of Life after Death,
4.Types of Knowledge,
5.Sources of Divine Knowledge...etc
http://www.alislam.org/books/philosophy/index.html = The Philosophy
of the Teachings of Islam
love for all hatred for none.
Peace and blessings be upon you and your loved ones and all humanity.
==========================================================================
Eric
2007-06-22 04:52:02 UTC
Permalink
On 2007-06-22 10:35:39 +0900, love4all_hatred4none
Post by love4all_hatred4none
Peace be upon you and everyone--
--(1)--Islamic outlook on matters of economy that promote peace and
security declares the strict forbiddance of usury/interest. Those who
utilize it are likened to being at war with Allah.
Does Allah permit me to rent my house?

Does Allah permit me to rent my car?

Why should I not be able to rent my money?
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(2)--Usury/interest can result in horrendous consequences, rendering
well-off people bankrupt and destroying their family life in the
process.
Hmm, yes, but if I don't pay my rent on my house, it could render me
homeless and destroy my career and family life too.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(3)-- Traveling long distance for religious gatherings/jalsa by
taking loans is a troubling self deception as even Hajj is enjoined
to only resourceful believers. Some people take loans on interest for
non-essential expenses, e.g. for ceremonies in weddings.
True. Just as it would be foolish of me to rent a house far beyond my
needs and means, so it is foolish to rent money for temporal things
beyond my needs and means.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
In developing
countries lives are afflicted by debt.
Yes, it would be unethical to lend money where alms should be given.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
Blessed Promised Messiah has
asked his believers, based on Quraan, to stay away from Interest and
stressed to trust Allah for help.
--(4)-- It is a fallacy to borrow money and get embroiled in a vicious
circle for temporary happiness.
That's true. But then to invest money in endeavors that could help
society and create wealth in the future is a good thing. However our
best plans don't always bear fruit. So such investment has a risk.
Interest is like rent, and it is also like insurance to help cover the
risk.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(5)--The Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) said that some people
lend money to others for their own advantage and affix a certain
'benefit' for themselves; this is a form of usury/interest. The Qur'an
is very clear on those who mistakenly consider trade and usury/
interest as one. [Al-Baqrah (ch2 : v276)].
Huh? Is this an edict banning profit?
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(6)--In Islam, the preferred way for those who have disposable
income, to invest it in a business with skilled people to promote
prosperity for all , instead of accumulating the money.
You have to accumulate it first before it is available to be called
disposable or to be used as investment capital.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(7)--A fairly new concept is introduced as 'Islamic banking' which
lends interest free loans. These [participating] banks should extend
their business, they will gather blessing. The community of promised
messiah should explore ways into this.
I haven't investigated these. Could you direct me to something that
tells me how this works?

There still needs to be a return on investment, otherwise there is no
increase in wealth that generates what people need. So they are just
reworking the concept and calling it something else. So it is a
semantical game, but it is the same thing. Until shown otherwise, that
is what I believe.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(8)-- Usury/interest is forbidden however once one takes heed, one
should make amends. However, as far as the mortgage system [in the
Western countries] goes in line with the enjoinment of the Promised
Messiah (on whom be peace) there are certain economic systems in which
generally speaking the Community allows borrowing money for the
purpose of a house on mortgage. If the mortgage outgoing is about the
same as rental would be, it does not matter. However, it should be
remembered that this principles applies to mortgage on a house which
is one's residence, one is not allowed to use this for business
purposes.
So, a business often needs office and manufacturing space. So I can't
take a mortgage to invest in the property where I do business? How
about investments in business machinery?
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(7)--In promoting a peaceful, secure society while Islam forbids
usury/interest, it also enjoins to give those who are in dire straits
some respite in terms of re-payment of loans (2:281). Certainly, there
is no question of any interest on the borrowed sum, rather the
emphasis is to be wary of the person's hardship.
That would be the ethical thing to do. What does Islam do with people
that just don't pay, even if tehre is no hardship?
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(8)-- Islam certainly does not permit taking advantage of a person's
vulnerable situation.
That would be the ethical thing to do.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(9)-- In terms of abiding by the commandments of Allah, blessed
promised son of the blessed promised messiah once remarked said that a
non-Muslim is like a disinherited offspring and can do whatever he
pleases, the father has no connection with him. However, a Muslim is
like a member of the family for the parent and will be reprimanded if
he takes a wrong step.
So, non-Muslims can charge interest, no problem?
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(10)-- Lender and borrowers should take care of each other by
imagining them into others position. The Hadith that enjoins to prefer
that for one's brother which one prefers for oneself is a guiding
light in this matter.
Huh?

Anyway, caring for your brother, that is the ethical thing to do.
Post by love4all_hatred4none
--(11)-- Some people infer from verse (3:131) that usury/interest is
not forbidden rather it is only 'multiple additions' of usury/interest
that is forbidden. Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) explained that
this is a wrong inference and that it was on par with suggesting that
the admonishment of 'not to commit sin upon sin' or 'multiple sins'
meant one could commit the odd sin and that only 'multiple sins' were
forbidden.
--(12)-- Surah Al Baqarah (2:283) = "O ye who believe! When you borrow
from one another for a fixed period, then write it down. And let a
scribe write it in your presence faithfully; and no scribe should
refuse to write, because Allah has taught him, so let him write and
let him who incurs the liability dictate; and he should fear Allah his
Lord, and not diminish anything thereform. But if the person incurring
the liability be of low understanding or be weak or be unable himself
to dictate, then let someone who can watch his interest dictate with
justice. And call two witnesses from among your men; and if two men be
not available, then a man and two women, of such as you like as
witnesses, so that if either of two women should err in memory, then
one may remind the other. And the witness should not refuse when they
are called. And do not feel weary of writing it down, whether it be
small or large, along with its appointed time of payment. This is more
equitable in the sight of Allah and makes testimony surer and is more
likely to keep you away from doubts; therefore omit not to write
except that it be ready merchandise which you give or take from hand
to hand, in which case it shall be no sin for you that you write it
not. And have witnesses when you sell one to another; and let no harm
be done to the scribe or the witness. And if you do that, then
certainly it shall be disobedience on your part. And fear Allah. And
Allah grants you knowledge and Allah knows all things well."
Explaining, the holy successor of holy promised messiah said this is
a most significant commandment in terms of carrying out dealings in
society and avoiding altercations. This commandment about committing
matters to writing was given in an age when writing of texts was in
its early stages. Here all matters are discussed with reference to
Allah, which is how a Muslim's affairs should be conducted. This
commandment is to promote mutual relationships of love and affection.
As far as two female witnesses compared to one male is mentioned ,
one sees even in the West women are not inclined towards economic
matters in the work place as men are. And in some countries, women
simply do not get involved in financial dealings etc. Hence that is
reason for the mention of two women as opposed to one man as regards
matters of financial dealing.
--(13)-The verse Al Baqarah (2:189) most significantly enjoins not to
devour each other's wealth and warns against the evil of bribery etc.
this is the kind of amassing of wealth that the Holy Prophet (peace
and blessings of Allah be on him) equated to filling one's abdomen
with a ball of fire. It is such practices that create general trouble
and disharmony and people lose their domestic peace as well.
--(14)-The holy successor of holy promised Messiah said we should
endeavour that under no circumstances are we among those who are
deprived of peace and security, may Allah protect the true beleivers
and make them tread the paths of His pleasure.
Divine promised peace for mankind in this era at www.mta.tv www.alislam.org
LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE.
1.The Physical, Moral and Spiritual States of Mankind,
2.The Object of Human Life and The Means to Attain it,
3.State of Life after Death,
4.Types of Knowledge,
5.Sources of Divine Knowledge...etc
http://www.alislam.org/books/philosophy/index.html = The Philosophy
of the Teachings of Islam
love for all hatred for none.
Peace and blessings be upon you and your loved ones and all humanity.
==========================================================================
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